Did you know this was this bad?

[kcjenkins]

http://tinyurl.com/4dspkdh

This is something we are all aware of. But I did not realize it was this bad.

[Catherine]

That's just horrid. Why don't they take the people trying to get blood out of turnips (e.g., two separate clients of mine, both out of work with NO assets, who owe some back tax) and put those agents to work on EITC fraud?! It would be a _much_ better ROI for the IRS and the country.

[joanmcq]

They do have a lot of agents working on EITC fraud. But the extent of the fraud is huge, and the audits are time-consuming and a royal pain. and getting the money back is like getting said blood from said turnip.

Last year NY audited their EIC (and a lot of other) returns BEFORE sending out refunds. Of course they were broke and this allowed them to delay refunds for 4-9 months. lol. and caught a lot of stuff that shouldn't be refunded. Canada does a lot of pre-audits.

The feds are hamstrung by the requirement to get refunds out as fast as possible; on one hand you have people saying 'get the money into the hands of people who need it', and on the other hand 'audit the basterds! fraud, fraud, fraud!' I agree with getting welfare out of the hands of the IRS. I'm sure the IRS would be fine with that.

[RitaB]

I have not done an official study, but I'd guess that 2/3 of the returns I've done so far have had refundable credits. Some in the neighborhood of $8,000.

I just now had a lady bring me her water bill, her mortgage payment voucher, a letter from her mortage company saying they got her payment from Western Union.

Nothing I can use for her tax return whatsoever. Oh, I will go back home and get that... she says.

OK, SHE is on the clock and has time to run around making unnecessary trips. As long as we work to pay taxes that will be distributed to her, she will be happy to ride the clock at her crappy jobs and draw unemployment in between.

Last but not least, EIC has succeeded in drawing out the non-filing self-employed. Only now, instead of just NOT paying, they GET paid.

[ILLMAS]

Just out of curiosity, what EITC abuse/fraud are you seeing with your clients? With todays technology I don't understand how people can get away with EITC fraud, I understand abuse, claiming a child lived with you and they don't or lying saying you provided more then 50% support. When I was an aprentice, I do remember correcting tax return of individuals who put down dependents they didn't have (used fake names, SS# or SS# applied for), but this was in the mid to late 90's, today I just can't understand how they can cheat the system. Someone please explain.

Thanks

[RitaB]

As far as I know, my clients getting the refundable credits are entitled to them. Sorry, I did not mean to infer otherwise.

I send the ones trying to find their self-employment records on my ceiling tiles elsewhere. I kinda think someone else IS doing the return, though.

I do have clients that tell me stories of their married friends each filing as HOH and splitting the kids. Not sure if it's true, but I don't have any reason to doubt what they tell me.

[ILLMAS]

"I do have clients that tell me stories of their married friends each filing as HOH and splitting the kids"

I hear the same stories too, to bad the IRS hasn't cracked down on these individuals :)

[kcjenkins]

Just out of curiosity, what EITC abuse/fraud are you seeing with your clients? With todays technology I don't understand how people can get away with EITC fraud, I understand abuse, claiming a child lived with you and they don't or lying saying you provided more then 50% support. When I was an aprentice, I do remember correcting tax return of individuals who put down dependents they didn't have (used fake names, SS# or SS# applied for), but this was in the mid to late 90's, today I just can't understand how they can cheat the system. Someone please explain.

Thanks

Well, probably the most common 'cheat' is for someone who lives with her boyfriend and has a kid or two from a prior relationship and does not work, but comes in and says she 'cleans houses for individuals' and just happens to make just the right amount to maximize EITC. Of course, no 1099s because it's from individuals who do not deduct it. And no expenses except a small amount of car expense, but, since they did not keep records, won't be claiming that. She files HOH, does not claim the kids, the father claims them, but she still gets max EITC and even a bit of SS coverage, and a very nice check from Uncle Sammy. She uses a PO Box, of course. I don't do these, but every year I see a number of them who walk in looking to get their return done.