Tax Lien on my house.....

[Denne]

My mailing address is being used by one of my clients. He works out of town and never got mail, since his now ex-wife, didn't seem to be able to keep track of the mail. We thought we had found the right solution. Well.........I just opened the mail and see that he has an old tax issue that has not been resolved. The IRS put the Lien on my home! My husband is in a real panic. I don't know how the IRS can take our home for the debt. I feel the client will take care of the taxes due.... Do I need a release of Lien of some sort....in writing?? What a headache and really don't need something else to do at the moment. Of course we were about to refinance....probably out of the question at the moment ;~(

Thanks!!!

[Lion EA]

I'm so sorry! I don't have any experience with this so can't offer help or steps to take, but wanted to sympathize. Do contact your client and have him copy you on his progress paying off his debt. And, maybe start with the practitioners' hotline for the steps to follow. I would want a paper copy of the release of lien for my records. Keep us posted. Someone who works more with collections and representation and our former IRS agents will jump in and offer practical advice soon.

[rfassett]

The IRS must think you are a responsible party for this debt. Why would they think that? It has been my experience that the IRS has made several attempts to contact your client before that lien has been placed. If you are receiving his mail, you should have received those notices, including the certified version. If you did not receive these, your client is playing games with you. I agree, contact the practioners hotline to find out more facts about this issue. And take their guidance.

[TAXBILLY]

My advice is to take the relevant paperwork and go down to your local IRS office to straighten it out quickly.

taxbilly

[ILLMAS]

Is your home title under your client name? I don't understand how can they put a lien on your house if he is not the owner. Maybe he owns other properties, but check anyway with a title co. To see if in fact there is a lien on your property.

[jasdlm]

Go down to the Court House and pull a copy of the lien that was filed. Are you sure that the lien has actually been filed? What did you receive that notified you of the lien filing?

[jainen]

>>contact your client... the practioners hotline... go down to your local IRS office... the Court House... <<

What are all you guys talking about? Denne, just let your mortgage broker take care of this through her title insurance officer. That's what you pay them for.

[TAXBILLY]

So the title insurance officer looks into it and says there is a lien.

Now what?

taxbilly

[jainen]

>>title insurance officer looks into it and says there is a lien<<

Yeah, well we already knew that. Now tell her to get it released because it does not relate to the owner. On second thought, if you have to tell her that, get somebody else.

[TAXBILLY]

So title insurance covers the property from future liens ...

taxbilly

[Denne]

Here is the update as of today..... I gave the client a copy of the notice that I had here from a quarter last year that was for $3000.00 I feel he paid the tax for that quarter, but perhaps it got credited to a different quarter or something. He was going to get some copies of the check (front and back). The other portion of the Lien was from the 941 for the second quarter of 2000 for $9000.00! Never have received a notice about that one since it has been my address that is being used. He said he didn't have payroll back then.

Now today.....I got a big packet of stuff from the IRS....assessing him $29,500 from 941 and 940 forms. These are from 2005 thru 2007. Many of those quarters did not have any payroll at all.....I have copies of those and will have to get a transcript so see where the payments have been credited. We have had NO notices about any of these quarters.

What a mess. It does say on the notice I got yesterday that there is a Federal Tax Lien on my home. It also indicated that the paperwork has already been filed with the County.

This is getting worse as time goes by.

Wouldn't you know.....I see this is an IRS agent that gave another of my clients a bad time. She would not admit that she had made an error in that matter. Made things worse than they really were...... Sounding familiar, huh?!

[jainen]

>>So title insurance covers the property from future liens<<

Don't be so arch. I'm talking about the NEXT policy. The owner is trying to refinance, and the lender needs to be in first position. In my opinion it is the title officer's job to investigate any cloud on the title before issuing the insurance. That's what you pay for, because presumably if she does a good job of it the risk of a successful claim is much smaller.

If she doesn't know how to clear an erroneous IRS lien, she must not have been around this business very long. In my opinion, IRS liens are probably the single most common problem escrow companies run into these days.

[jasdlm]

I've seen many title insurance officers point out problems with clear title. I've never seen them jump through the hoops to fix a lien that's in error. Maybe that differs by state.

Denne, did you sign any of his returns/941s/940s for him as anything other than the paid preparer?

[Denne]

I've seen many title insurance officers point out problems with clear title. I've never seen them jump through the hoops to fix a lien that's in error. Maybe that differs by state.

Denne, did you sign any of his returns/941s/940s for him as anything other than the paid preparer?

Yes....I did. On those that had no tax due and when he was out of town..... Sounds like I am now in trouble perhaps for trying to be for help???

[rfassett]

Yes....I did. On those that had no tax due and when he was out of town..... Sounds like I am now in trouble perhaps for trying to be for help???

Now that does not sound good. I hope he has paid you well over the years for you to assume that risk.

[TAXBILLY]

>>Don't be so arch.<<

Coming from the king of arch, I'll take it as a compliment. :~)

taxbilly

[jainen]

>>Yes....I did<<

Hmmm, that's not the sort of thing I would be telling the whole world about. But I think (well, I guess)(actually not much more than a hope) that's irrelevant. At least, you should try to keep it out of the question. It reinforces my position that this is best handled as a title problem. If you try to deal with it as a TAX problem, by for example calling Practitioners Hotline, there might be some uncomfortable repercussions. Ironically, you are probably better off if you forged the signatures. If you signed as an authorized agent, you may have to fight the 100% penalty under which you are personally liable for the payroll taxes. For that you need an EXPERIENCED tax attorney or Enrolled Agent. It can be nasty. And the lien does suggest that you might already be there.

Anyway, the first thing is for the title officer to contact IRS and request release of the lien. She should explain that this is a personal residence and although the company uses the accountant's mailing address for accounting matters it does not conduct any business at that location [that's true, right?]. If that doesn't work, at least since you are not selling the house, the IRS probably won't object to the refinance and will subordinate to the new mortgage.

Oh, by the way--another thing I wouldn't be saying is "We have had NO notices." Save that complicated technical objection for the skilled attorney to make later if necessary. Generally it doesn't help resolve anything.

[kcjenkins]

I'd be careful about your way of answering things, Denne. When you say "We have had no notices...." that WE sure makes it sound like you are part of this business.

[Denne]

I'd be careful about your way of answering things, Denne. When you say "We have had no notices...." that WE sure makes it sound like you are part of this business.

Very good point......... Sure a real mess and all of the records are in storage ;~( I believe the client will not end up owing much of anything...perhaps nothing, in the end.

Any other guidance???