Energy Credit for Heat Pump

[Randall]

Does anyone know the difference between a heat pump system and an AC and Furnace?  Client brought in an invoice, total $16,000.  The jargon and model numbers are confusing.  Client said new AC and Furnace but was told of $2000 credit.  If I use new AC and Furnace, credits are total $1200, $600 each.  If I use heat pump, credit is $2000

[kathyc2]

They use different technology.  In mild climates heat pump can replace both furnace and a/c,  In colder climates a furnace is still needed.

I just had one and used model numbers on invoice to check efficiency ratings on manufactures site.  Then checked energystar.gov to verify efficiency ratings met the criteria. 

Client received 600 for furnace plus another 2,000 for heat pump. 

[BTS]

Heat Pump is an AC in reverse.  Sucks humidity out of cold air and produces warm air.  Efficient down to around 35 to 40 degrees.  Below that temperature either an electric element or gas system kicks in.  We have a heat pump with gas backup and have the backup set to come on at 40 degrees or below.  The client should know what they had installed or they can call the installer and see.  But yes the credit for the heat pump is higher.

[Lee B]

The installer should have provided them with manufacturer documentation if the system qualifies

[GLJEANNE]

7 hours ago, Lee B said:

The installer should have provided them with manufacturer documentation if the system qualifies

Should, but in my experience almost never do.  They tell clients they don't need it.  Well, if TP is filing their own return and doesn't care/think about records keeping, I suppose that's true.  I try to make them find the manufacturer's certificate for their model, but most of the time I end up having to do it.  Tried to avoid it, but at this point it's usually faster for me to find it than to deal with the 20 back and forth emails with the TPs. 

[jasdlm]

45 minutes ago, GLJEANNE said:

Should, but in my experience almost never do.  They tell clients they don't need it.  Well, if TP is filing their own return and doesn't care/think about records keeping, I suppose that's true.  I try to make them find the manufacturer's certificate for their model, but most of the time I end up having to do it.  Tried to avoid it, but at this point it's usually faster for me to find it than to deal with the 20 back and forth emails with the TPs. 

This is the experience I have had.  'You don't need it' or 'You can print it off the internet'.  I have so many clients scouring the internet for their 'voucher' to print off.  Ridiculous.

[TexTaxToo]

In the future the installer will have to provide a 17-char QM PIN (Qualified Manufacturer Product Identification Number) which is a unique number like a serial number that will be required on the tax return - eliminates any need to verify if it qualifies.  For 2025, only the QM part of the number will be required.

For 2024, there are a couple sites where you can look up model numbers to see if they qualify:

https://www.regulations.doe.gov/product-lookup

https://ahridirectory.org/

The first one is more official, but I have found it more difficult to find matches unless you have the AHRI reference number already.

[Lee B]

I would never do that, I send them back to their installer who should be able to provide them the relevant documentation.

Sometimes it turns out that their salesperson wasn't truthful and there is no documentation.

[Randall]

I have a certificate but it has numbers and letters but no word description of what it is.  I thought this might be a general certificate covering all their products and not specifically for the product the client has.  That's why I called it confusing.

 

[GLJEANNE]

Oh that QM PIN will be great, no more searching online!  Shoot, some installers invoices don't even include the model name or number.  And as Lee said, some just lie.  Anything to make the sale, I guess.  (Yeah, sometimes I'm sure it's an honest mistake, but it's late in the season and I'm cranky and unwilling to give them the benefit of the doubt, lol.)

[Lee B]

 

How would anyone know whether a QM PIN is legitimate or not?

[TexTaxToo]

Rev. Proc. 2024-31 explains the QM PIN requirements.  Manufacturers must label units with the QM PIN, or otherwise provide it to purchasers.  They must at least quarterly provide the IRS with lists of the QM PINs they have issued which qualify.  So the IRS will know which are legitimate.

I think it is unlikely that there will be a generally available lookup tool, as there would be too much opportunity for fraud (someone could look up numbers until they got a match and use it on a return).  "The IRS urges QMs not to place a product’s PIN on the exterior packaging of the product," presumably for the same reason.

I wonder if there will be a new reject code "The QM PIN entered on the return has previously been entered on another return".