2019 1040 with 1310 keeps rejecting even though it follows the IRS rules

[NECPA in NEBRASKA]

What the heck am I doing wrong or is it another ATX screw up? This is a 2019 return for a client that died in 2020. We were waiting for a personal rep statement. Now the attorney says that there was no need for a court ordered personal rep even though their invoice says that filed for one. My client died without a will and everything was POD. I checked C on the 1310, no to will and yes to distribute. I read the rules for 1310 and it says to keep a copy of the death certificate. It keeps rejecting with this error. I know that I have to paper file with a court appointed rep, but I thought that this could be efiled. I tried to attach a death certificate, but I can't even create the efile 
The XML data has failed schema validation. cvc-complex-type.2.4.a. Invalid content was found starting with
element 'OtherPersonClaimingRefundInd'. One of '{"http://www.irs.gov/efile":CourtOrPersonalRepGrp,
"http://www.irs.gov/efile":RefundClaimWithProofOfDeathGrp}' is expected.
aX0000-005 Federal 1040

Is she just stuck paper filing and waiting forever for the refund or am I  answering the questions incorrectly?

Thanks!

Bonnie
 

[jklcpa]

I had errors in Drake the way I was answering the questions too.  What I found out is that "C" must be checked, "No" to a will, the next 2 questions checked as "No", and "will distribution marked as "Yes".  Then, the name shown as "in care of" must match the name on the 1310 of the person claiming the refund. 

The "in c/o" name may be your problem with it showing a mismatch error.  

iirc, I didn't attach anything and I was able to efile the return. 

[NECPA in NEBRASKA]

Nothing that I do will stop the rejects. I have a feeling that it is a programming error from ATX again. I will call tomorrow, but the only time that I have used support this year was pathetic. I have not had to use them much for several years, but this chat and call were not good. My client's daughter will not be happy that it has to be mailed and not get the refund forever.

[Pacun]

Are you including the date of death? If yes, take it out. If not, add it in.  I did one a couple of years ago who died in February before filing. Wife was able to sign and file jointly without any issues.

[NECPA in NEBRASKA]

9 hours ago, Pacun said:

Are you including the date of death? If yes, take it out. If not, add it in.  I did one a couple of years ago who died in February before filing. Wife was able to sign and file jointly without any issues.

She is not married, though. I don't know if her daugter can sign if I take out the date of death from 2020.

[GLJEANNE]

Because it's too late to e-file a 2019?  Can't we only e-file the current season?

[jklcpa]

42 minutes ago, GLJEANNE said:

Because it's too late to e-file a 2019?  Can't we only e-file the current season?

No, once IRS opens up the MeF system each year, we have the ability to file the current and prior two years returns, so up to the shutdown late this year, we can efile returns for 2020, 2019, and 2018.

[GLJEANNE]

Oh, good to know, guess I've never tried that!!

Well I hope you find a solution, I have one with the 1310 coming up too.  It might be one of those where we have to attach the form as a pdf.

[Metrotax]

Did you find a solution? I have run into the same issue and nothing I've tried has worked.

[XP4ME]

In the past I have gotten it to e-file when there is no court appointed personal rep.  Then 6 months down the line the IRS requests a paper 1310.  Better to just paper file it from the beginning.  IMO

[NECPA in NEBRASKA]

48 minutes ago, Metrotax said:

Did you find a solution? I have run into the same issue and nothing I've tried has worked.

I just gave up and mailed. There does not seem to be a way around it, at least not with ATX. The IRS rejected it every time for various errors. ATX support was worthless this time. I think that it is definitely a programming error. They just said to mail. It makes me mad, because I am going to go through the same mess for 2020.

[Margaret CPA in OH]

I submitted a return with a 1310 with C, Person other than surviving spouse or court-appointed rep..  It went through just fine, refund deposited.  This was in February.

[NECPA in NEBRASKA]

7 minutes ago, Margaret CPA in OH said:

I submitted a return with a 1310 with C, Person other than surviving spouse or court-appointed rep..  It went through just fine, refund deposited.  This was in February.

Margaret, I don't understand why mine would not go thorough. This is not the first time that this has happened with any 1310 for me. I am going to look at it again. I have checked and unchecked various boxes. It is a C with no will. Thanks!

Bonnie

[Margaret CPA in OH]

Hmmm, mine had a will.  That is likely the difference.  Without a will I am guessing a spouse or a court appointed rep must be involved so that there is an identified person responsible.  The one I filed had a person in the will as executor.

[Catherine]

This is something I've NEVER understood about the 1310.  The instructions read (working from memory here, at wrong computer) that if you DON'T have a court-appointed person, you can e-file, but if you DO have a court-appointed person, paper file only.  Seems absolutely positively 100% back-asswards to me.  The court appointed person has a fiduciary duty; the random non-appointed person may well not.

[DANRVAN]

2 hours ago, Catherine said:

but if you DO have a court-appointed person, paper file only. 

The court appointed PR does not have to file 1310 with an original return, but instead attaches a copy of the appointment to the return.  

ATX has a link to attach it to e-file.

[NECPA in NEBRASKA]

It is ridiculous, first ATX rejected every option that I tried. I checked different boxes and attached PDFs. Then when it finally made it through ATX, the IRS rejected everything and ATX said that they had no idea what the error was about and to mail.

[Abby Normal]

I've resigned myself to paper filing decedent returns with refunds, and advise my clients to make sure they die owing taxes. I tell the family/executor to not make estimated payments after death or near death. So much easier to file a balance due.

[Abby Normal]

9 hours ago, DANRVAN said:

The court appointed PR does not have to file 1310 with an original return, but instead attaches a copy of the appointment to the return.  

ATX has a link to attach it to e-file.

Doesn't ATX require the 1310 to create the efile? I haven't done one recently.

[Dhawk]

I have had prior year e-filing rejection until I got the Submission ID current on the relevant EF Info form. It has to contain the current years date (just after the PIN). Doing this is kind of wierd, something about eliminating the practioner and re-chosing one. It used to be you would discard the EF Info form and re-load it. I don't think that works any more. 

[DANRVAN]

15 hours ago, Abby Normal said:

Doesn't ATX require the 1310 to create the efile?

It should not and seems like it has worked in the past.  

If not it is a programming error.  I have one coming up and will find out.

[Catherine]

OK; I did some more research on this one.  The client I have has a big refund due; waiting a year to get a letter saying "we didn't get the 1310" when they obviously DID get it is not an acceptable option to me.

If you have a court-appointed PR, you DO NOT NEED the 1310.  What you do need is a pdf of the court appointment appended to the return.  The software companies largely insist on the 1310 because the IRS rules are NOT clear as to whether the pdf (that the instructions say to append) is enough, or if they want a paper-filed return even though the 1310 instructions say nothing about that being required.  So the work-around I'm going to use is this:

• Form 1310 with choice C (no court-appointed rep) plus whatever question responses are needed to allow e-file.
• PDF appended to the return showing the court appointment, and 
• Disclosure statement (8275, yes? it's been a while since I've needed one and you guys all know the form I mean) stating I answered the questions to allow e-file since instructions say to attach pdf; not that paper-filing is required.  May add verbiage about not adding to their paper-file backlog for a straightforward final decedent return.
  • Still debating this one - include this or leave it off?  Comments, concerns, anything else I should deliberate on including the disclosure?  Let sleeping dogs lie?

[DANRVAN]

 

54 minutes ago, Catherine said:

The software companies largely insist on the 1310

So are saying ATX (or other software) will not e-file with an attached PR certification unless you incorrectly fill out 1310?

Seems like I have done this before without the 1310.

I prefer not to file an incorrect 1310 and would go with paper file if no other choice.   I have one to prepare soon.

 

[Abby Normal]

Crazy option: understate the withholdings or estimated payments so the return shows no balance due or refund, then let the IRS sort it out.

[DANRVAN]

2 hours ago, Abby Normal said:

understate the withholdings or estimated payments

I am not crazy at all about filing a return that is not correct in that regard either.  IRS might take longer to sort it out than a paper file.