Office question

[Roberts]

How do you file / store your clients paper files / working papers? Normal cabinet, box that is not secure? Lockable filing cabinet providing very little real security? A hardy lockable filing cabinet with a real lock? A safe?

[Roberts]

I should note, I've seen all different types of systems the last few months. Guy upstairs uses a gun safe (would take <10 minutes with a crowbar but looks safe). Guy next door has a lockable filing cabinet from Wal-Mart (would take <10 minutes).

Attorney I deal with has a full safe he stores them all in (weights 3000 lbs).

[FDNY]

Top floor of 4 level townhouse, locked file cabinets in locked file room,  full house alarm system with broken glass sound and motion detectors, and attack Yorkie.  If thief can get files in 1 minute before cops are on their way I don't know what else I could do. 

[ILLMAS]

We don’t, after going paperless all paper return are digitallly stored, just like the tax software files.  

[Abby Normal]

We have a locked, deadbolted, windowless storage room, but it's mostly to keep current year records secure. We have carts that we roll away every night so everything is as secure as can be. We're in the process of shredding all historical paper records.

[Roberts]

My point was basically working papers. I have 1 client with a stack of old documents and everything else is current working papers on this year's tax returns. I have a few files with client info but no SSNs in them. Basically things like self financed mortgage, rental property info - that sort of thing. If stolen they are meaningless for a criminal as they contain no usable data (SSN, DOB)

[Abby Normal]

22 minutes ago, Roberts said:

My point was basically working papers. I have 1 client with a stack of old documents and everything else is current working papers on this year's tax returns. I have a few files with client info but no SSNs in them. Basically things like self financed mortgage, rental property info - that sort of thing. If stolen they are meaningless for a criminal as they contain no usable data (SSN, DOB)

Digitally. We don't want to spend time pulling/filing files or looking for misplace documents.

[ILLMAS]

23 minutes ago, Roberts said:

My point was basically working papers. I have 1 client with a stack of old documents and everything else is current working papers on this year's tax returns. I have a few files with client info but no SSNs in them. Basically things like self financed mortgage, rental property info - that sort of thing. If stolen they are meaningless for a criminal as they contain no usable data (SSN, DOB)

Have you considered just scanning and placing them in a folder per client on your computer?

[Roberts]

4 minutes ago, ILLMAS said:

Have you considered just scanning and placing them in a folder per client on your computer?

So when the client delivers their documents for this years taxes, you immediately scan all of them and immediately return them to the client and never keep them in your office over night?

[ILLMAS]

If a client mails or hands me their documents, it's stay in my office overnight or even weeks until the return is completed, once completed, I then scan the return copy I am going to issue my client and any document that supports the tax return and save it as one file.

[Max W]

44 minutes ago, ILLMAS said:

We don’t, after going paperless all paper return are digitallly stored, just like the tax software files.  

And what makes you so sure that those are secure, unless they are stored off-line, if banks and credit agencies and even the gov't and IRS can't secure their info?  Practically all identity theft nowadays is by electronic means and it is done by the tens of millions.   

It is probably safer to just have an alarm for the office/home and just keep paper records.  Locks on most filing cabinets can be breached in seconds.  Then the thief has to either copy or cart off the records. 

One office I know of is vulnerable as there are cleaning people that come in in the evening.  The filing cabinets are unlocked, so someone could theoretically copy several dozen names and SSN's every night.

 

 

[Abby Normal]

Most of the time the client drops and runs and we scan later. But we only work from scans and just keep the records secure until client picks up returns. Some clients who are far away just email us everything so we don't even have to scan. We code them in ATX with an 'N' so we no there's no physical file to deal with.

[Abby Normal]

1 minute ago, Max W said:

And what makes you so sure that those are secure,

All of our computers are connected to the internet by necessity. Sites that are hacked are websites that store data for access. Our computers are not websites.

If you look at your router logs you will find programs have been probing your ports trying to connect, but failing. Most times it's from a college IP address and it may just be harmless probing.

Such is the world we live in, but I'm not going to use an outdated, inefficient paper process in my office.

[Roberts]

11 minutes ago, ILLMAS said:

If a client mails or hands me their documents, it's stay in my office overnight or even weeks until the return is completed, once completed, I then scan the return copy I am going to issue my client and any document that supports the tax return and save it as one file.

So you hold client papers in your office and are required to secure them. How do you store / secure them?

 

 

[ILLMAS]

8 minutes ago, Max W said:

And what makes you so sure that those are secure, unless they are stored off-line, if banks and credit agencies and even the gov't and IRS can't secure their info?  Practically all identity theft nowadays is by electronic means and it is done by the tens of millions.   

It is probably safer to just have an alarm for the office/home and just keep paper records.  Locks on most filing cabinets can be breached in seconds.  Then the thief has to either copy or cart off the records. 

One office I know of is vulnerable as there are cleaning people that come in in the evening.  The filing cabinets are unlocked, so someone could theoretically copy several dozen names and SSN's every night.

 

 

You are absolutely correct, just take a look at this:  http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/02/27/change-of-address-scams/

[ILLMAS]

2 minutes ago, Roberts said:

So you hold client papers in your office and are required to secure them. How do you store / secure them?

 

 

Filing cabinet

[Roberts]

14 minutes ago, Max W said:

And what makes you so sure that those are secure, unless they are stored off-line, if banks and credit agencies and even the gov't and IRS can't secure their info?  Practically all identity theft nowadays is by electronic means and it is done by the tens of millions.   

It is probably safer to just have an alarm for the office/home and just keep paper records.  Locks on most filing cabinets can be breached in seconds.  Then the thief has to either copy or cart off the records. 

One office I know of is vulnerable as there are cleaning people that come in in the evening.  The filing cabinets are unlocked, so someone could theoretically copy several dozen names and SSN's every night.

 

 

This is my point. Whether it's document you have overnight, a return completed / printed waiting to be picked up or complete paper files, they are all vulnerable.

 

I scan everything and they are kept in an encrypt travel drive. They can also be on my computer which is encrypted and turned off every night. Actually the computer hard drive is 100% encrypted AND the files are encrypted within it. I'm not worried about my electronic scans, it's the physical return info I have in the office currently processed.

 

[Gail in Virginia]

I find this discussion fascinating.  We use filing cabinets, have no cleaning crew, and an alarm on the office.  We log off computers that aren't in use at the time.  But I still think a determined thief will find a way. 

[Roberts]

2 minutes ago, Gail in Virginia said:

I find this discussion fascinating.  We use filing cabinets, have no cleaning crew, and an alarm on the office.  We log off computers that aren't in use at the time.  But I still think a determined thief will find a way. 

This came to my attention because an IRS email questioned whether office files were secure. I could fit everything within 2 drawers of a filing cabinet easily but I'm wondering the best solution for acquiring those two drawers SECURELY. I watched a Youtube video and they hacked into a locked cheapo filing cabinet in seconds.

 

The guy in my building who uses a gun safe has everything in physical copy.

[Abby Normal]

27 minutes ago, ILLMAS said:

scan the return copy I am going to issue my client

Why not just print it PDF to save a step. Then print to paper from the PDF. That's our procedure.

[Abby Normal]

From my router log:

[DoS Attack: SYN/ACK Scan] from source: 151.80.230.107, port 22, Wednesday, February 28, 2018 11:53:24

[DoS Attack: RST Scan] from source: 209.98.153.105, port 443, Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:47:10

Both were today.

https://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/151.80.230.107

https://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/209.98.153.105

[ILLMAS]

1 hour ago, Abby Normal said:

Why not just print it PDF to save a step. Then print to paper from the PDF. That's our procedure.

I could do that, however I like to sign the returns and stamp it "COPY" in blue ink before scanning them.

[Abby Normal]

13 minutes ago, ILLMAS said:

I could do that, however I like to sign the returns and stamp it "COPY" in blue ink before scanning them.

You can do both electronically.

[Max W]

1 hour ago, ILLMAS said:

I could do that, however I like to sign the returns and stamp it "COPY" in blue ink before scanning them.

Foxit PhantomPDF allows you to sign and watermark "Copy" or anything you want and in any color.  I never have to print a hard copy.  I also use the signature feature for all kinds of docs, including 2848's.

[Catherine]

What we do is scan everything, and return originals to the client as soon as possible.  The only paper we keep is interview notes (one sheet of paper) and signature pages.  Even those get scanned at season's end and the originals shredded.  We have locking filing cabinets that all client documents get stored in.  Two offices; the main office is alarmed and is very secure (it was a former police station).  Secondary office (my house) is also alarmed.  All the pdf documents are stored on encrypted drives.  Without the passphrases, anyone who steals the drive just has gobbledygook, not data.  Massachusetts' rules are that everything not being immediately used *must* be under lock and key at all times.  As is usual with one-size-fits-none regulations, rules that make sense in a big office with common desk areas also apply to me if I am alone in my house and just want to duck to the kitchen to rinse out my teacup.