Need Knowledge on Corp & Partnership Returns

[Tax Prep by Deb]

Does anyone have a good source for some classes (online or otherwise) that will teach at least the basics of Corporation and Partnership tax return prep?  I have a few of my clients who are moving from sole to corps and I hate to loose them, but I feel dumb when it comes to trying to figure them out.  I am a quick learner but would really love to take some kind of class. 

Any thoughts?

[Gail in Virginia]

NCPE offers a good 2 day seminar on corporations and partnerships, but the farthest west they go is Las Vegas and Denver.  Does your local community college (or California equivalent) offer classes on taxation as part of the accounting curriculum?  Our local community college offers Principles of Taxation I which primarily covers individuals and Principles of Taxation II which gets into corporations and partnerships. 

[Lee B]

I used to buy some of the PPC Deskbooks which are good references with a how to do it theme, although they are a bit spendy.

[Lynn EA USTCP in Louisiana]

Check out NATP; I think they have webinars on those topics 

[Abby Normal]

The most practical seminars are NCPE. And by 'practical' I mean useful. But first you need to read the instructions for those business forms to get yourself familiar with the lines. Then try to do a sample return using a P&L and balance sheet from one of your business clients.

NEVER skip doing the balance sheet and M-1 on these forms because doing those proves that you have it correct.

Also, on 1065 and 1120S you must calculate the owner's basis to see if losses are deductible or not. 1065s can have plenty of debt basis but 1120S... well I don't like to have any debt basis because it's too complicated. If my sole shareholders tell me they loaned money to their  S corp, I just show it as a capital contribution to make my life simple.

You have a lot to learn.

[Pacun]

NCPE's web site is using AOL. It is sooooo slow.

[Pacun]

I was joking but I think I am right. Look at the email address from "contact us"

ncpe
20108 Plank Road
Zachary , LA , 70791
US
Fax: 225-654-8000
Phone: 800-682-2163
Email: [email protected]
Email: [email protected]

 

[Lynn EA USTCP in Louisiana]

NCPE Corporation partnership seminar in the fall is an update, not the basics. You must have the basics down before taking their update seminar. . yes, they are in .zachary La, not far from Baton .rouge since 1987. 

[Catherine]

NATP has self-study classes available; check them out.  They have 8-cpe-hour classes on C corps and S corps (plus partnerships).  They are basic level classes geared exactly to your situation:  sole-prop clients "moving up" in complexity of business structure.  

They may also have webinars and guided classes; I always prefer self-study.  Take a look at their offerings here:

https://www.natptax.com/EventsAndEducation/Pages/course-list-self-study.aspx

[Lion EA]

I have used the NATP webinars.  Also, CCH, both webinars and live classes at their User Conference.  I have found junior college and college courses to be theory and not practice.  Read the instructions and IRS pubs and case studies in The Tax Book and any resource that shows filled-out forms to have a feel for what you need to know before spending money on courses.  But, it will be money well spent.  Partnerships and S-Corporations are enough alike and enough different (pension, health care, other issues) that I have to remind myself which I'm doing -- don't like the new deadlines because I end up doing those two entities the same time instead of a month apart.  C-Corporations are actually easier for me, as long as I can balance the balance sheet, because they are free-standing entities with my clients less tempted to commingle funds.  If you have new entities, with a zero beginning balance sheet, you will be able to follow the flow through to year end.

[BHoffman]

Deb, how familiar are you with the balance sheet?  That's probably the biggest difference between preparing Sch C and the other business returns.  If you need to brush up on it, I'd suggest you start there with a particular focus on the equity/capital section and how it works with the income statement.  Every class is going to be talking about the balance sheet.

 

[Catherine]

1 hour ago, Lion EA said:

as long as I can balance the balance sheet

That is ALWAYS the bugaboo.  I have never, ever, had a balance sheet balance out properly without (sometimes a LOT) of massaging beyond the "normal" book-to-tax differences and timing differences.  OTOH, it has also led me to unearth some serious errors in what my clients have reported to me, that in a Sch C would never have been noticed.  It usually ends up revolving around personal loans made to the company, to get them through a cash-flow hump (or vice-versa), that is later forgotten about.  

[Abby Normal]

21 hours ago, Catherine said:

OTOH, it has also led me to unearth some serious errors in what my clients have reported to me, that in a Sch C would never have been noticed

This is exactly why I'm always a bit apprehensive doing those Sch Cs where you just get a sheet of paper with sales and expense totals. And many times the taxpayer might be missing deductions.