Why did ATX go to this new format? Why now?

[cfncpa]

It was obviously not ready to roll out successfully. What were they thinking? There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old program. We pay a premium for this product and ATX has now set us all up for a very slow start to what promises to be a hectic tax season for other reasons. I just dont get the reasoning behind this move.

[Jack from Ohio]

Check my other posts. This rework is 5 years overdue. Compatibility issues with server operating system and the newest operating systems.

The only reason ATX worked on Windows 7 was the ability of Windows 7 to treat programs like XP. Server software, on the other hand, is not so kind.

ATX up through 2011 used an older excel spreadsheet as a format with an Access 97 database. Can you say outdated??

[Margaret CPA in OH]

For many of us using this program for years (I go back to tax year 1998), complaints about slow response and the inelegance of using spreadsheet and database for the program grew with every passing year. When CCH bought ATX they likely were going to get rid of it but for the loyalty of so many long time users, despite complaints. So they decided to make a major overhaul to address the complaints. I'm not a techy but I think the spreadsheet and database stuff was older methodology and took up lots of memory.

Anyhow, CCH did this major overhaul which was promised and we knew it was coming and this is what we have, for better or worse. I think it likely there are more complications than they could imagine but, frankly, I'm a believer since 1998. And it still suits my practice. Your mileage may vary.

[cfncpa]

I love the word outdated, if its the only version thing that WORKS when I need it to WORK.

Can you say choke?

They should have perfected it before rolling it out. I suspect they didnt want to spend the money to create one more tax year under the old program, while at the same time deveoping and perfecting this "new tech". So they abandoned the old, except for payroll since it was needed a few weeks earlier than income tax returns, and knowingly pushed the new junk out the door full of bugs. Tax season is nothing to play with, we deserve better than this. If ALL of the problems are not fixed in a week or two, some of the ATX customers are going to be in a real bind.

[Jack from Ohio]

Outdated = incompatible with current technology.

[Guest Taxed]

Most of these tax prep software were created before the Java programming language. These days most of PC based software are written in Java because of its superior operating system independence and scalability. So while Taxworks, ATX and a few others have taken it on the chin this year the other major players who are on deck are Taxwise and Drake. The key is if they learned their lesson and finish their rewriting during the off season and test it before the start of the next filing season!

As you may know to send e-files in the MeF environment the XML schema is used. The older software used the legacy format which was the fixed position file system.

I am not a techie but my old college roommate is a systems guru and this is from him. He has worked with our state on many Tax related software development.

[jklcpa]

So while Taxworks, ATX and a few others have taken it on the chin this year the other major players who are on deck are Taxwise and Drake. The key is if they learned their lesson and finish their rewriting during the off season and test it before the start of the next filing season!

^ that is the sole reason that I haven't asked for a refund from ATX yet and gone over to Drake. I really like using ATX and it suits my practice well, and I don't want to convert to Drake and then next year have the same sort of fiasco with Drake and have to think of another conversion. I'm really hoping for a solution from ATX so that I can get going.

[Janitor Bob]

You are smart! Seriously...what you say makes perfect sense. I do not question "Why" ATX changed everything....my complaint...as with everyone else here...is that it obviously was released on unsuspecting customers in its clearly pre-beta state.

I actually think it will be really nice once the bugs are worked.....It just would have been nice to do that in the off-season. I kinda hate to admit it....but if ATX offers a nice enough discount for next season, I will likely remain with them.....but they really should offer a huge discount for using us as beta testers.

[Roberts]

New is always better than the old version.

Sin

The former board of Directors, Coca Cola.

[Guest Taxed]

If there is a light at the end of the tunnel for ATX users, consider the fact that CCH is in a better position (by its financial strength) to revamp software and make it current, though their timing is questionable. Many of the no name, homegrown software will bite the dust when they have to spend enormous resources to rewrite their current software and make it into a professional quality software. At the end of the day it will be the big boys (Drake, Intuit, Redgear, CCH) who will split the market share of professional tax prep market. The low end market will most likely be web based (cloud computing) for those who do less than 100 returns. I would love to see a NATP survey of professional tax software next year. I think the last one they did was 2012.

[jklcpa]

When I was speaking with a Drake rep yesterday, he did mention something about web based cloud computing with them in the future.

[joanmcq]

There is no way I would do tax returns on the cloud. What happens to your data if you don't renew? TaxWorks customers are complaining about not having access to Arkworks if they switch software. And TaxWorks appears to be in worse shape than ATX with their overhaul of their software this year. And the people that went with TRX don't have working software at all.

[dctolbert]

This is the FIRST year that I am thinking that I need to look for a NEW tax program!! I had a client that took 1.5 hours in my office to do the return, because my system was soooo slow. It look 20 minutes just to print. It was a simple return with 1040, EIC and 8812. I don't know how I am going to manage appts. this year. I am SO DISAPPOINTED! And then I can't even get through to customer service. The other tax years work FAST and just like they should. The 2012 programs even slows down other programs open. I am afraid that I may lose clients not willing to wait!!!! This software is NOT CHEAP especially with all the add-ons you have to purchase each year as well. It is unfortunate, but this may be my LAST year with this company.

[Gail in Virginia]

i got off to a rocky start, but ever since the 12.5 update I am fortunate that our software is working. It is really, really slow when I rollover and open a return, but once the forms are all updated and I re-open the same return, it is much faster. I suspect a large part of the slowness is having to convert each return from the old platform to the new, and there probably is no way to avoid that. But, like so many have said, I am not a systems person and could be wrong. Maybe the speed is something they could have fixed. Last week, I was ready to scream, pull my hair out, and ask to be converted to TaxWise, but this week is going much better.

[Guest Taxed]

Well here is a friendly suggestion. If you already know that the rollover process is slower than before, then take the following steps the night before the appointment: If you have help ask them to do it for you.

1) Open the ATX 2011 return and make sure it is not corrupted. Basically run it once and if it works you are good.

2) Open ATX 2012 and rollover it using Rollover Manager. Get your self some snacks or coffee or if you have a home office scan the channels!

3) Next morning or (the night before) before the client shows up, open the return and fill in the basic stuff!

I do that with my software and it works. This way if there was a rollover error I can catch it and not appear to fumble in front of a client!

[Eric]

Check my other posts. This rework is 5 years overdue. Compatibility issues with server operating system and the newest operating systems.

The only reason ATX worked on Windows 7 was the ability of Windows 7 to treat programs like XP. Server software, on the other hand, is not so kind.

ATX up through 2011 used an older excel spreadsheet as a format with an Access 97 database. Can you say outdated??

In my opinion, they should have taken more than one year to make such a drastic change.

The Excel format (actually, it's an Excel clone, the spreadsheet control was purchased and further developed internally) might be outdated, Idunno, I think that's debateable. I wouldn't consider it to have been on the brink of uselessness this year.

Even back in 2000 when I began working there, I thought Access was a terrible choice for data storage. When I think of Microsoft Access, I think of simple DIY databases for personal use. ATX was using MSDE, based on Microsoft SQL Server to power their Sales and Use Tax Software, which was much more robust.

[jklcpa]

In my opinion, they should have taken more than one year to make such a drastic change.

The Excel format (actually, it's an Excel clone, the spreadsheet control was purchased and further developed internally) might be outdated, Idunno, I think that's debateable. I wouldn't consider it to have been on the brink of uselessness this year.

Even back in 2000 when I began working there, I thought Access was a terrible choice for data storage. When I think of Microsoft Access, I think of simple DIY databases for personal use. ATX was using MSDE, based on Microsoft SQL Server to power their Sales and Use Tax Software, which was much more robust.

Thank you, Eric, that's what I've been thinking since this nightmare began, that the old programming couldn't have been totally useless. After all and as someone else pointed out, Taxwise and Drake have yet to go through with this conversion. ATX should have released in the old format while continuing to work on this and have it rolled out and complete for next year. Not the rush job and complete disaster that this is quickly turning into.

[Lee B]

In the August 8th issue of The Progressive Accountant, there is an article about the struggles that CCH has been going thru

for the last three years. Declining sales growth, losing market share to Creative Solutions & Ultra Tax etc. Lots of turnover

at the top management level. Product consolidation etc. ATX is not the only problem they have.

[Jack from Ohio]

Thank you, Eric, that's what I've been thinking since this nightmare began, that the old programming couldn't have been totally useless. After all and as someone else pointed out, Taxwise and Drake have yet to go through with this conversion. ATX should have released in the old format while continuing to work on this and have it rolled out and complete for next year. Not the rush job and complete disaster that this is quickly turning into.

They have been working on the change for 3 years. Tech support has verified this in the last 3 years.

Non-compatibility with netframework 4 server software was it's death knoll.

[Eric]

They have been working on the change for 3 years. Tech support has verified this in the last 3 years.

Non-compatibility with netframework 4 server software was it's death knoll.

Having worked in QA for most of my time at ATX and TaxWare*, I can not imagine working on a project for THREE YEARS and being so unprepared for the release, with such obvious stability and performance issues.

I only assumed they did the whole conversion in a single year because of how badly things have been going.

I guess they were a little too quick to get rid of most of the talent at ATX.

*Taxware is the company that purchased the Sales and Use tax software "TaxSolver" when ATX was acquired by UCG.

[JohnH]

3 years and this is what they come up with?

Good thing they didn't have 4 years to work on it.

[kcjenkins]

"I guess they were a little too quick to get rid of most of the talent at ATX."

So very true.

[cnccpas]

easy answer to this question and will probably repeat it for every problem.

1. Somebody felt smart and switched to the Raven database system using .net. Basically a total overhaul of the program. Notice they separated the "Payroll" returns from the program? They are still using the old ATX engine and the payroll program is perfectly fine.

2. The raven database is a document-based database and apparently in ATX is using UNC mapping for running the program which causes massive amounts of unnecessary network calls and packet congestion. UNC mapping has been on Microsoft's kill list for years as it is also easily exploited. Those fam with how a particular Intuit product took performance hits when they began using the file monitoring agent (aka license checker) were also victim to this. Since opening a QBW file over a network connection was horrendously slow compared to prior years. It's all in the database calls, SEND, ACK, RCV, that good stuff. However you look at it, UNC mapping is one of the most ill-thought ways to run a program and is an insult to any IT professional. If it was the preferred way of accessing data why has UNC program access been on the security zone block from the OS for years? H-E-L-L-O? There is a reason Microsoft does this.

3. Another thing, the Raven Database is coded to use the Application Data folder under All Users in non Windows 7 and 8 OS, a BIG NO-NO. Notice to all cloud-based backup users, CARBONITE IS NOT BACKING YOUR ATX DATA!!! Windows 7 and 8 users will find their ATX data in the hidden System Data folder off their C: drive, since the true user data folders are system access only and no users can touch. Again, CARBONITE will not seek this out. This is what causes so many multi-user issues too.

4. Simple comparison of 2011 to 2012.

2011 Time to open up the program for the 1st time, search a client name, open the return and see it on the screen, 20.8 seconds.

2012 Time to open the program - 52 seconds

2012 Time to search the client by last name - 1:30 not included 2 prior failed attempts (program crash)

2012 Time to open the same return after the first initial time (don't count rollover time). 3:45 minutes.

Simply don't see how the wool was pulled over somebody's eyes in the conference room when somebody proposed this. Unless it involves a cheaper developer software license or the leftover crap from that other tax program they recently bought. Great job though, took a good program and ruined it.

[Eric]

cnccpas: thank you for the informative post, but it's not necessary to cross-post it in every thread. Thanks.

[cnccpas]

No problem, Losing tons of billable hours thanks to ATX. Just showing my appreciation and I have yet to get a response for over a week "that generally takes 24 to 48 hours" according to the email.