BLACK BART

Yes, I know that, but it's too much trouble to reinstall for just one client. That's why I'm interested in TAXMAN's remembrance of a way without killing off the program. While Will R. might see danger and huge problems in deleting them; I don't. To me, a paper copy is functional for investigation and checking as long as I can read English. If change is needed, I'll do a 1040X from scratch. Too, I'll keep the last three years' clients until refund times expire. Thank you for the friendly advice, but I don't want want to abandon the old days. While I have no doubt your office is fully equipped with 6TBs of warp drive and a memory bank which won't expire until the twelfth of never, I much prefer software that suits me instead of some damned machine.

I I'd also like to know. My ATX won't let me delete them either. It's not a space/storage problem; it's a security problem. I've already got hard copies of everybody for at least three years, some seven if equipment's involved, and some from day one depending on other factors. However, if somebody breaks in and swipes my computers I don't care if they get the programs, but if they can manage to break the passwords then they have access to hundreds of clients' information. I want to keep the programs only to use for potential future clients who are years behind in filing and to delete the old clients so they aren't at risk from thieves.

There may not be any point to this reply (I can't think of any "very common and very typical" reasonable cause other than "health") but since there are no other cents worth submitted, here's my two. First...what's wrong with using the elderly husband's poor health as a cause? It's not uncommon among elderly people for the "man of the house" to handle the finances. She could plausibly say he usually handled business but was unable to do it this year and she was distracted, exhausted, and traumatized from the caring for her elderly husband's extensive medical needs (you can exaggerate a little bit - I once expanded a cold to pneumonia). IRS is aware that health issues generally affect everybody in the house no matter who is sick. A few years ago I got a penalty abated for a lady: husband died, left $50K in IRA, clueless son withdrew it all, gave to sick mom, they told me long after 60 days, I attached a sheaf of medical bills, a heart-wrenching letter, and the penalty never materialized. A couple of notes: On $494 you're really not talking about any money. Is it worth a 5329 (does she want it fixed now-will she pay you)? IRS will eventually get around to it - I once left off a small Wells Fargo withdrawal and they billed me. Downside is you have to wait a year and a half for it. Tobacco fumes? I've got a client I'll swap with you. Both he and his wife smoke like chimneys. They drive to Missouri (low tobacco-tax) once a month, buy a large can of loose tobacco, break out their cigarette-rolling machine on the kitchen table, and whip up a 30-day supply of coffin nails. The aroma from their annual visit would drop an ox. Can't blame him too much, though - claims he had to give up whiskey and women, so what's left?

Yes; and so do lots of other preparers. But also there are many others who pay it no mind and don't file it at all. Instead of "How many preparers file 8594...", I guess my question should have been "Have you ever seen or heard of any IRS action of any kind taken with regard to this form." As I said; I have not.

Just curious but wonder how many preparers file this form when a client sells his/her business. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f8594_accessible.pdf There's the 230 factor, of course, but there's also a possible "loss of client" factor since buyer/seller views re asset classifications frequently clash (what helps one may injure the other). I've never yet seen (or heard of) an IRS audit, fine, notice, or any communication of any sort at all about it. Some clients don't care whether it's filed or not and some do. In any case I don't believe IRS matches them up (excluding GM and such I suppose).

Well, you're among friends anyway and, isomorphically speaking, I'd say you're a pretty good ol' gal. Besides, I don't have a thing in the world against those octonians. Here's one of your comrades-in-axioms -- he started out as a kid repairing transistor radios for his neighbors. One of the world's great physicists (and comedians). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman Read this book (I have and think you'll like it). The used paperbacks are cheap and good. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=RICHARD+FEYNMAN Cheers!

Client stopped by the office this morning and; (maybe not quite this scarce, but still...) https://www.amazon.com/Bring-Me-Unicorn-Lindbergh-1922-1928/dp/0156141647 said he was going to sell $75K of stock, but first wanted to know: "What would be the effect on my taxes?" What'sa matter with this guy? Doesn't he know it's standard practice throughout the tax preparation world for clients to sell now and ask that question next April?

Present.

I'm not so sure of that. I used to work for a CPA who audited government water and sewer operations and he said that while it paid well, the excessive amount of government red tape ate up much more time and profit than he could have made doing tax work for private enterprise. Only that man's opinion, of course; and you have yours. True; I hadn't thought of that, although I'd still like to see a survey of percentages by the types of work they do. Just a note, but I imagine that most practitioners/preparers of whatever title or classification, registered or not, get sick of people asking, "What do you do after tax season?"

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. But I have to sort of disagree with you about the CPAs. I'm no authority and hail from a rural area, but I cannot remember ever meeting a CPA (at seminars or on message boards and such) who did not deal with taxes. I tend to think the vast majority do taxes. And if I ever need to ask something tax-related that's over my head, a CPA I know is the first guy I think of calling - he hasn't not known anything asked and those killer multi-part tests they take command respect. This is only anecdotal of course, but while I'm sure there are CPAs (probably in large metro areas) that have non-tax practices exclusively, it just seems common sense to me that most would practice taxation (it's where the money is).

Gimme a break, Easy -- they'd have to pull a gun to make me take that EA test again. As anybody checking my posts could probably attest, I must've passed it by the skin of my teeth. The only less knowledgeable person there was the IRS test monitor who held a 1040-EZ booklet up in her hand and said "If you pass the test you will be fully able to complete this form." Have some compassion, comrade-in-accounting (we've suffered enough ). Sara - you're right on the money about attorneys - many have called me and most don't know jack about taxes. And as for their fees outranking ours, well...many years ago I clerked for a rich plantation owner - he had a local attorney on retainer (who charged extra for special jobs). The owner died and I took his papers to the lawyer. On his desk was a paperback book (about $3 at the time) entitled "How to Do an Estate Tax Return." When I paid the bills next month, the lawyer's invoice" stated "Preparation of Estate Tax Return - $5,000."

Couldn't find out from IRS -- their website answers every other thing in the world (except what you want to know, of course). But here's a quote from a payroll company and I'm guessing that, being in the business, they probably would know. According to them the numbers never expire and are never reissued to anybody else. https://www.patriotsoftware.com/payroll/training/blog/what-is-an-fein/

You're a brave girl.

In the spirit of fellowship I herewith offer my contribution to this breezy and good-humored discussion. To wit: All Sonic corndogs will be on sale August 1st for 50 cents (regular $1.29). Supposedly it's everywhere; from here all the way to Gum Stump and further on "up north." Thought I had better try to keep this lightweight post goin' since David, Jack, and Edsel put up one of those NT (non-trivial) posts up above. No doubt those three boys know lotsa stuff about the depreciable arts and it surely needs workin' out. But it seems to me that I've expended lots of time, thought, and torture on it without much payback. While I've rassled ACRS, MACRS, S-179, bonus, and such for years; I know of a tax preparer who's been using straight line and nothing else since 1975. Never been checked. "It's so much simpler," she once said (69 and not a gray hair in her head). I agree, but anyhow I've got my virtue to keep me warm (if unfed).

Since many deaf-eared clients will not timely file; we try contacting them but if unreachable I extend anyway. I don't know if one-time IRS OPR director Karen Hawkins' opinion about not filing extensions without clients' permission ever became a 230 reg, but they don't enforce it anyway (as Patton once said about the army - "They have their agenda; I have mine"). IRS' is to impede business and take their money; mine is to facilitate it and prevent that. The only thing I see we can do is avoid it (file the extensions). Until not so long ago, you could write and expect reasonably quick replies from Audit before Collections got around to you. No more! My last two outing were disasters: (1) Took 5 months and many letters proving they cashed my check. (2) My error - filed 2014 payroll on a 2013 941 form; wrote many letters, they billed additional 2013 tax, wanted new 2013 W-2s, and listed 2014 as delinquent. Lucked out calling the Taxpayer Advocate and got a sharp agent who asked for POA and my letters. I faxed, she fixed - 15 minutes. Got a laugh when she read the IRS letters and confirmed my opinion of IRS, declaring "This is absurd!" (Call your state's TA - when they're good, they're very, very good). As to approval of extension changes, it depends on whose ox (clientele) is gored. I don't like it wholeheartedly, halfheartedly, or any other way because I have 1065s, but no 1120s; those with many corporate clients likely feel the opposite. But I really don't like the new payroll deadline; it's all I can do to get the info by 1-31, much less correct wrong addresses or numbers employers don't have (yes, yes; I know they should have this, but as a practical matter some don't, and unless you can afford to emulate the "Soup Nazi" attitude, you have to suck it up).

??? There's something I like about this post, but....can't put my finger on it.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/comme_ci_comme_ça

How much for the so-so?

I was just wondering how often others here raised their fees. And by how much - flat dollar amount, a certain percent, or determined how? I usually go up $20 every two to three years if they have the same stuff as past years; $35 to $50 if some added forms (not major) are necessary. This method used to work well - I'd raise the fee, 20 to 40 clients would quit, increased fees covered the loss, I'd work less. But as I've aged, the herd has thinned (death, retirement, increased filing ceilings) and isn't being replaced as in the old days. Clients used to bring their kids, but now they're on TT - it's rare to land a millennial. While not a problem for those servicing the (upper) carriage trade; many mom-and-pop shops are serving middle-aged factory guys, and (increasingly) the elderly with interest, rent, and SS; so it's getting to be thin gruel for those fighting Block, J-H, and TT for the scraps. Just culled/burned the old files and looks like I dropped about 15 this time. AR may not be #1 in the nickel-nursers race, but we're definitely in the running. Had a client for ten years and after three seasons at $75, raised him to $95 -- he's gone with the wind and (apparently) hurt feelings. Another casualty was a good, many-years $250-$350 case (client said daughter was fixing it). Checked around - found out, sure-enough, the mythological (I thought) barber-beautician home of deep tax lore actually exists (the kid's a hairdresser by day and Super-Preparer by night). ______________________________________________________ After crosses and losses, men grow humbler and wiser. ---- FRANKLIN

There was a young lady from Bright Whose speed was far greater than light, She left one day, in a relative way, And returned the previous night. http://www.phy.olemiss.edu/HEP/QuarkNet/time.html All I know (better make that heard of) about the subject is E=MC2, but Catherine can probably explain it.

Does anybody know (for sure) what the deal is with those calls you get where no one answers when you say "hello"? It's not a hang-up; just silence until you hang up. A client told me it's an enhanced sales gimmick wherein a robo-computer calls and is programmed to distinguish between real (human) answers, no answers, and voice-mail answers. How they can do that, I don't know; since the automated systems at credit card companies frequently say "Sorry, I didn't get that - please repeat or key in your account number." Anyway, this guy says the idea is that the computer weeds out no answers/voice-mails and then later the talented, real salesfolk call the redacted list. That way they don't waste their precious time (just ours) on no-possibility calls and only have to work the live herd (us). This rationale sounds reasonable - I can't think of what else it might be.

No idea, but I just Googled GA 500-NOL and the form and instructions came up. How about doing it on paper if you have the prior years' info?.

Yeah I guess you're right. I used to object to this because I knew many capable preparers (no credentials) who handled run-of-the-mill returns at a reasonable price. Now, many of those have retired or died and I get guys like a 22 year-old (apparently shopping around) who complained to me this year (after I gave him the 8867 quiz): "You guys are the only one who ask me all that stuff!" From that, I'm inferring that maybe even the big-box franchise employees are letting things slide. I'm already long-in-the-tooth and only got the EA ten years ago because I thought I was going to be forced to, but if the RTRP is resurrected I'd say most competent preparers could handle that okay and not be run out of business. Kinda inconvenient, of course (I sweated blood for that EA test ).

That's my philosophy too -- even if it did take four or five hours. $275 dollars is $275. After all, what am I doing after tax season that's so pressing I can't make up the lost time (playing Sol for a couple of hours doesn't pay nearly as well). Only thing that might make me not do it is the "minister" portion (those "C" guys are supposed to be traveling evangelists and most aren't). IRS likes to force 'em to switch to W-2 status and kill off their (big) mileage expense.

"No cash - no gain." (BB/2-7-17 post) "Yeah, every single person that ever sold real estate in this town thinks that. Every. Single. One." (RitaB/2-7-17 post)." You're right - they're everywhere. Doubtless you're very much looking forward to breaking the news to the poor soul above (may be the end of a 20 yr. run).